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Interview with Matt Rubano / Taking Back Sunday (2005)
By Sarah Saturday
I met Matt on the 2004 Vans Warped Tour. I was working in the production office and Taking Back Sunday was on one of the main stages that summer.
Matt is sarcastic and genuine -- one of the few dudes in bands I've met who has more to him than the fact that he's a dude in a band. But that's probably because he's a true musician; playing music is just a part of who he is, fundamentally. It's not something he does to prove himself.
That summer, Matt and I bonded over five string basses and finger picking. I learned about the impressive and surprising twists and turns the path of his life had taken to bring him here, and when it came time to make my second issue of The Zine, Matt was the first person who came to mind.
This is not your usual tale of rags to riches. This is a story for all the musicians in bands out there. Enjoy.
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SS: FIRST THINGS FIRST: DESCRIBE THE MOMENT YOU DECIDED THAT YOU WANTED TO LEARN HOW TO PLAY MUSIC.
MR: I was sitting on the bus going to Junior High School one morning, when Dave O'Connell (Taking Back Sunday drummer Mark O'Connell's older brother, and my best friend) handed me a walkman and said, "Listen to this." It was the Red Hot Chili Peppers's Mother's Milk. I listened to the entire thing, and that became the definitive moment when I realized I wanted to play music for the rest of my life -- although I didn't realize it until a few years later.
SS: WHAT WAS YOUR FIRST INSTRUMENT? AND HOW OLD WERE YOU WHEN YOU GOT IT?
MR: My first instrument was the 4-string electric bass, and I got it when I was about 15 or 16. It was a black Fender Jazz copy and cost about $230.00. I wish I still had it. I bought it at the random urging of Dave (he had been playing guitar for years), and we started trying to play our favorite bands' songs. I bet a lot of bass players become bass players because their best friends are guitarists. Happened that way for Mike Watt. It's a funny and unique way to become a musician.
SS: DID YOU TAKE LESSONS, OR ARE YOU SELF-TAUGHT?
MR: I was self-taught at first, but as I became more interested in Jazz and world-type sounds that I had no knowledge of, I sought out a teacher. I had many influential people guide my musical development in various ways.
SS: YOU PLAY A FIVE-STRING BASS, RIGHT? AND YOU PLAY WITH YOUR FINGERS? JUST HAD TO ASK. (LAUGHS AT RANDOM BASS-GEEK INSIDE JOKE)
MR: I play a 5-string with Taking Back Sunday, finger style. I can play with a pick, although I'm way more comfortable with my fingers. Other than that, I play a 4-string fretless bass, a custom 6-string (my baby), and I dabble with the upright bass but I don't have one right now. I might buy a cheap one for myself for the holidays and try to tame the beast.
SS: DID YOU GO TO COLLEGE? IF SO, FOR WHAT? IF NOT, WHY? HOW VALUABLE DO YOU THINK COLLEGE IS FOR SOMEONE WHO WANTS TO GET INTO MUSIC?
MR: I went to Berklee College of Music in Boston for a year and a half to study Jazz. It was crucial in my musical life, not so much for the schooling as for the people I met when I was there. I met some of my best friends to this day at that school. It depends what your goals are but I don't think school is necessary for anything in the arts. I mean it's not a world that has "entry level" positions and things like that, which is basically where you'd end up with a degree in the arts. It's based on your talent, creativity, aesthetic, determination, and who you know (in no particular order). I mean, Eminem didn't go to music school. I don't recommend it to everyone.
SS: WHEN DID YOU START PLAYING IN BANDS AND HOW DID YOU GET INTO IT?
MR: I got started playing in bands in high school with Dave O'Connell. There were a lot of bands in my high school and all over Long Island; it was a really nurturing, competitive environment. We had backyard shows, some club shows, made our own records, all that.
SS: AT WHAT POINT DID YOU DECIDE YOU WANTED TO BE A MUSICIAN, AS YOUR CAREER?
MR: Some of my older friends who were very talented were heading to Berklee, so I went up there to visit it; for what I was interested in at the time, it was the perfect place for me. I found out who some of the alumni were and was inspired by many of them. Somewhere in there, toward the end of high school, I knew it was what I wanted to do even though I was still developing the basic skills of musicianship. After obsessive practicing and relentless study, I got a partial scholarship to go there and was very excited about that.
SS: HOW DID YOU MAKE YOUR FIRST MAJOR CONTACT IN THE MUSIC INDUSTRY AND WHO WAS IT? DO YOU THINK THAT "IT'S ALL WHO YOU KNOW" IN GETTING AHEAD? IF SO, WHAT DO YOU SUGGEST TO A SMALL BAND IN THE MIDDLE OF NOWHERE WHO WANTS TO GET AHEAD, WHOSE ONLY CONTACT IS THE DRUMMER'S UNCLE WHO BOOKS BANDS ONCE A WEEK AT HIS BIKER BAR ON COUNTY A? AND IF IT'S NOT ALL WHO YOU KNOW, THEN WHAT IS IT?
MR: Well, my first major contact in the music business was one of my best friends: a talented producer/engineer/guitarist named Jamie Siegel. He was working at Chung King, a very popular studio in NYC, and was working on tons of different records and with very well known artists. We had played in bands and gone to Berklee together, and he knew what my abilities were (he even taught me to a degree). He was always trying to get people to hire me.
The opportunity arose for him to bring me in to audition for Lauryn Hill, and I was hired to play a few songs on her Grammy-winning debut, The Miseducation of Lauryn Hill. That was an awesome experience, and I owe it solely to him. It wasn't all easy-going after that, but Jamie really looked out for me and is still one of my closest friends, and favorite people to make music with. He really got me on my feet and helped me stay up.
Therefore, I believe it is who you know to a degree. I mean that's why people move to New York and Los Angeles: to be near the people who know people, and who are involved in the business. There have always been stories of people in the 'middle of nowhere' sending their demos to people and getting discovered, and these days with the internet it's a more-level playing field as far as getting one's music heard.
My advice to anyone that wants to develop his or her career (no matter where you are) is to work hard, never stop, be aggressive and believe in what you are doing. If you don't, no one else will. You can be the most talented being in the world but if you don't get out of the basement, it isn't gonna happen. I don't condone all of this, but it seems to be "how it is."
SS: WOULD YOU SAY THAT YOU HAVE CONTROLLED YOUR DESTINY FOR THE MOST PART -- THAT YOU ARE WHERE YOU ARE BECAUSE YOU MADE A CONSCIOUS EFFORT TO GET THERE -- OR WOULD YOU SAY IT'S BEEN A SERIES OF GOOD LUCK AND EXCELLENT TIMING?
MR: I believe that everything in the universe is completely chaotic and unpredictable. And I think in music, it's ten times more so. You can plan for anything, but it doesn't mean it's gonna go down. That being said, I always had goals and stayed focused on them even as they changed over time.
I remember one time, I was so broke and I was waiting tables, and one day I quit because my boss was an unreasonable bitch. I walked outside, knowing I was now not only broke, but also jobless. Seconds later I got a phone call and was offered a job playing in the orchestra of a new Off-Broadway musical from a guy that I had jammed with one time. He was the musical director and said he remembered that he loved my playing and that I was a nice guy, and he didn't want just anyone on the gig. I was saved. The show ran for almost a year and won lots of awards. I got my first reliable salary in music and met lots of other great professionals.
I have treated every opportunity as a chance to show someone what I could do, and am grateful to have had those opportunities. I would not be where I am now without the people I know, and remaining focused. I think it's as important to be talented as it is to be cool, nice, and humble with people you encounter.
Brittany Spears was the biggest artist in the world for a while and I don't think it's because of her talent. I mean she can reportedly sing and she can dance, but it isn't special -- it's a very garden-variety type of talent. She was marketed and served to you on a tube-top-wearing platter. She's not so interesting in loose-fitting sweatpants and a turtleneck. People like her songs? Whatever.
It's about luck, talent, timing, who you know, what you look like, determination, all of that stuff in varied amounts and permutations.
SS: WHAT ADVICE WOULD YOU GIVE TO A KID WHO WANTS TO BE IN A BAND? IS THERE ANY ONE THING YOU WOULD SAY TO PREPARE HIM FOR THE JOURNEY AHEAD?
MR: I would say jump in with both feet and make sure it's really what you want to do. It's gonna be rough. But it's also the most fun you can have.
SS: REGARDING TOURING: IS THERE ANYWHERE IN THE WORLD YOU HAVEN'T VISITED ON TOUR YET?
MR: There are lots of places we haven't gone yet, and I hope I get to see Japan, Australia, New Zealand, Italy, France, Jupiter, and South America.
SS: WHAT ARE YOUR SURVIVAL TIPS FOR LIVING ON THE ROAD?
MR: I could write a book of survival tips on the road. It's an entire lifestyle that you have to learn by figuring it out for yourself. There are all kinds of weird experiences and paradoxes that lay waiting out there for you: sneaking 8 people into a motel room past the manager, finding food with any nutritional value whatsoever, sleeping enough to balance with the hard work you will be doing, finding peace in the middle of a place you've never been and might hate, hurry up and wait, finding decent coffee, getting along with your mates, sharing the driving... etc. So basically, get out there and do it!!!
SS: DID YOU HAVE TO GO THROUGH THE WHOLE SHITTY, SLEEPING-AT-REST-STOPS, 12-PASSANGER VAN TOURING? IF SO, WHAT ARE YOUR THOUGHTS ON THAT? IF NOT, HOW DID YOU MANAGE TO SKIP THAT PART? WOULD YOU SUGGEST SKIPPING IT IF POSSIBLE?
MR: I've toured in every incarnation possible: car, van, truck, bus, plane, train -- you name it. Four guys in a van, sharing the driving, sleeping roadside, making no money, van breaking down, hostile audiences, sleeping on strangers' floors; I personally think these experiences helped me grow up and made me realize how badly I wanted to play music. They also teach self-reliance on a level that most normal people can't, because they've never been forced to. If you're willing to go through the torture of touring at its worst, you'll make it and have some beautiful experiences with your friends. When I was a working musician starting out, I toured with dudes I didn't even like! Try that, try touring and going through the hell with people you can't stand. I also think you wouldn't appreciate flying and touring in a bus if you never do the painful van touring. I have my own hotel room sometimes now, but keep in mind: I'm 27 and started touring at 19. I've at least earned a shower now and again, at this point.
SS: WHAT IS YOUR MOST PRECIOUS MEMORY FROM THE ROAD? YOUR MOST DEVASTATING MEMORY?
MR: I think my most precious moment of touring was the completion of my first North American tour. It was three months long, visited every major city, I watched the seasons change and came back to New York a different person. I had a beard, I had seen San Francisco, I had gotten drunk and high near train tracks in Wyoming -- I had lived my Kerouac-ian fantasy. My first trip overseas was very memorable as well, because if I had to sum up my life's goal in one statement it would be, "Play music, see the world." So to some degree, I had achieved it.
A not-so-great moment in touring was having to leave for one of my first tours in the van right after my mom had been diagnosed with cancer and was about to begin treatment. In addition, she was selling the house I grew up in and was moving into an apartment somewhere in Queens. I remember it was just after a hurricane had torn through the south and that's where we were headed on tour. Two of the venues we were meant to play had been destroyed and it just didn't seem like it was supposed to happen. The storm hadn't even died down yet and we were about to drive right into it. I remember walking through my house, all of my memories and things that had become the fabric of my childhood packed into boxes, knowing that when I returned, my house would no longer be mine. And knowing that while I was away, my mom would be going through the hardest time of her life and I wasn't going to be there for it. It was too much for her to handle but she was doing it anyway, and that was when I learned that my mom is the strongest woman on earth. I got in the van and waved to my mom standing in her bathrobe, looking sick and weak in the front doorway of our house, both of us crying. That tour was tough -- I was playing in a jazz group that relied heavily on free improvisation and it was very difficult to be inspired at first. But I finally relaxed and played some of the most creative shows I have ever done.
SS: DO YOU EVER WANT TO STOP TOURING? WHEN? WHY?
MR: As of right now I like touring, but I'd like to balance it out with some more time at home. It's the best life, really it is, but there are other things I want to do, creatively and personally, that I can't while I'm away. After I'm home for a few weeks I always want to go back out. I'd like to tour my whole life -- like I said there are places I have yet to see -- but it's not easy. I imagine, as I get older, I'll slow down a bit--but I don't see it coming any time soon.
SS: OK, DO ME A FAVOR AND DISENCHANT THE "ROCKSTAR LIFESTYLE" FOR THE READERS:
MR: Do you like peace and quiet? Do like sleeping more than 5 or 6 hours a night? Do you like going to the bathroom in a clean private place? Do you like to rest when you're sick and when you're tired? Well you can kiss that all goodbye. You'll be meeting tons of people, some of which you'll like and some you won't. Some people you have to meet and have to be nice to, even though you don't know them. People who will think that because they have your record or saw you in a magazine, that they are owed time with you, time for you to sign things -- numerous things -- and call their friends on their cell phones, take pictures with you (and thanks to digital cameras, lots of "Oh wait I look bad in that one can we do another?" and "Can you smile more?") and be asked weird questions about your personal life. And heaven forbid you falter on any of this stuff, because these people who only two seconds ago loved you and were excited to meet you will call you an asshole and tell everyone who will listen that you're a megalomaniac and a sellout, they'll start a website dedicated to your copious flaws, after meeting you once, for less than two minutes. Doesn't that sound fun?!
Please, know that I am not complaining. I am telling you how it is. I don't know, I mean it's a great life; I feel like I've won the lottery. But it will end one day. Maybe sooner, maybe later. And when this part is over, I'm gonna be a cool motherfucker because the younger bands are going to come in to take our place and that will be their time. No one likes a disgruntled old has-been. I've met some dudes that I looked up to who thought they were above a handshake and a "What's up," and that is ugly behavior. It breaks the brother/sisterhood of being in this lucky-ass position. I will make music forever and it doesn"t matter how many people hear it or how many 18-year-old girls think I'm dreamy. It's not about that. One way or another, I'm grateful, and will continue to play music until I die. I see this as another chapter in my life as a musician.
SS: NOW EXPLAIN WHY PLAYING MUSIC FOR A LIVING IS THE BEST JOB EVER:
MR: Playing music is indeed the best life. Music is god (or whatever word you want to use for it), and playing it is honoring that magical feeling you get from listening to it. It has healing power and the power to deliver messages and make people feel. I remember the first time I plucked an open E string on a bass and how it felt against my stomach (and it wasn't even plugged in). I thought I had discovered magic. I get to start every day with that feeling. And sometimes it's in front of lots of people who get a great deal of joy from what we do. It occurred to me this past year that what we really do is deliver joy to people, either via a record or a performance, in a sad song or a happy song, or by igniting a memory. We help heighten the feelings you experience in life with music. It's a great thing and I cherish the opportunity to do so.
SS: OK, FINAL QUESTION (IT'S MY FAVORITE): IF YOU COULD CHANGE ONE THING ABOUT THE MUSIC INDUSTRY, WHAT WOULD IT BE AND WHY?
MR: Ah, changing the music industry: idealism at its best. Let me start by saying that the music business cannot change because it is bound to the principles and laws of capitalism. It isn't about music. It's about selling things. The internet has diversified this landscape, but to the same ends. Reach people. Sell them your stuff. The powers that be aren't concerned with how much feeling is in your music or how much you've practiced; it's better to them if you have large breasts and a big first week when your record comes out. They don't care how you do it. I wish this was not so, but alas it is. Venue owners don't care about you or if your band's name is spelled correctly in the paper. They care about tickets and drinks sold. They're businessmen. They are not bad guys for it though. This system has been in place for a long time. And a lot of those people do care about music. I do not mean to generalize them all. If I could change one thing about this business I would simply make real talent the valuable commodity.
But even as I explain this, I'm referring to my idea of what talent is. Everyone has a different idea of what it is. Your grandma probably thinks Ashlee Simpson is talented. She must be: she's on TV, right? I mean in the days before lip-syncing and boob jobs, you had to be talented. There wasn't studio technology to help you sound good. Whatever you had, it hit the tape and was cut in wax and that was that. No wankers allowed. These days you have to look good first. People see your video first and then your record. Strange process for music, which is made for your ears and not your eyes, huh? Think about some of the bigger artists 40-50 years ago. Not all of them supermodels by any stretch of the imagination. I always think about Aretha Franklin and whether or not her talent would have been able to make it through today's landscape of entertainment if she were a young aspiring artist right now. She's not 'Beyonce sexy' or 'Christina thin' -- but twice as soulful and creative as the lot of them, in my opinion. Is Ryan Cabrera as talented as Jeff Buckley was? Hell no. No way around it, opinion or not. But that dude will probably sell more records and be in more magazines than Jeff ever was -- all because he dated a famous person, also of questionable talent. (Sorry Ryan Cabrera, I'm sure you're a cool dude, I just needed an example... also, get a haircut.)
There are a lot of low-spark, high-heeled motherfuckers walking around here. It's about selling things and not talent, and I would change that if we lived in idealistic wonderland.
Comments
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such a good read...
haha this is so coool.
:)
that's the best interview anyone has ever done with anyone! WOW